Cloner shaped by Spline

[smckenzie]

Basically I'm trying to recreate the functionality offered by RailClone for 3DSMax. It takes any object and adds them to a surface, like MoGraph, however it uses a copy of the spline that makes the object to clip or mask any objects that fall outside of the surface spline.

You can see it here:

https://youtu.be/XhZE0ui55lI?t=478

[Dr. Sassi]

Hi smckenzie,

Thanks for the link. I checked the website as well.
This is a larger package. I do not think I can understand the full functionality from the example clips, but I hope we can find workflows to get there in some cases.

Please share a project file with your target if you have a specific problem.
I will try to find a solution.

Please look at the files below; perhaps it provides some ideas.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/alh1aff8nqunout/CV4_2023_drs_23_MOsr_31.c4d.zip?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ke2f49k972ex0mm/CV4_2023_drs_23_MOsr_11-21.zip?dl=0

It also depends on the render engine if you have a lot of "clones" with the same setup.

All the best

[smckenzie]

Keep the ideas coming, they are awesome!

Yes, RailClone can do many things, all I need is its basic functionality which is clipping objects to a surface without resulting to using a boole.

See attached scene.

Currently, say I want to attach roof tiles to a roof. I'll make a cloner in a honeycomb pattern and make the cloner so its just a little larger than the roof itself. Then use Connect Objects. I'll take the new roof tile object along with a copy of the roof surface and use them in a Boole on Intesect. This results in the my original roof tiles being "clipped" to the original roof.

It works but its a lot of steps. RailCone achieves the same thing but without the Boolean operation.

[smckenzie]

BTW, I can't upload the scene, the website gives an error message. The scene is 1.1Mb.

[Dr. Sassi]

Hi smckenzie,

I had created in the past (Before honeycomb was an option) that pattern with two (one shifted) planes and connected them.

You can also define where one-half element goes while using a quick formula, mod(id;2), to get only every second, while the plane needs an uneven number of polygons for that. With the Weight, you can also distribute empty places or many more variations.

https://stcineversityprod02.blob.core.windows.net/$web/Cineversity_Forum_Support/2023_PROJECTS_DRS/CV4_2023_drs_23_MGhc_01.c4d.zip
(I hope the links work now for you, IT has set up a new folder for me, after you had trouble last time.)

So sorry about the failed upload. I will check next week with the people working on the forum.
Do you have, by any chance, established the free version of Dropbox? I have used it for years (2GB max, so I am constantly cleaning the space.)

By now, I have gotten that you have done many things with your plugin; I guess I do not need another reminder

Tell me what is important to you based on your project, and I will try to give you a Cinema 4D answer to that if there is a way to do so.
The plugin seems to be also not a one-click-and-go if I get the website correctly, just to state the obvious. But perhaps if you had so much success with it, you might have to stick with the environment that makes you happy. You will never be happy when you always think that something else is the right answer for you. After three decades of using 3D as a tool, I have abandoned many apps; not saying they were bad, just things must fit; you need to feel to use the things that work for you in the best way. Anything else is just not a good idea.

There is something that I have said many times over the past nearly 17 years running the Cineversity Forum: If you come from another app, don't search for tools that you know. Find how it is done in the new app. Otherwise, there is no benefit from changing. Searching for replacement is like walking with crutches. You can move, but well, not as fast as you could, either way.

Be that as it will, I'm happy to explore with you what you need and perhaps find solutions that will work for you on many projects to come.
I have worked as a Lead Designer and Office Principal/Manager on many larger projects, some I designed purely on my drawing board before they went into CAD, and they were often over $100M each. I have spent quite some time in that business, so I'm happy to work with you on those things. If needed, I will make feature requests, but if not enough people ask for this, it will take a while before those things are implemented.

All the best

[smckenzie]

Getting there but won't this only work on an even sided shape like a rectangle? Will this work on an non symmetrical shape, i.e. an L shape? Basically all we're trying to do here is have an easy way off adding tiles to a surface like a roof without having to result to using a boole.

I'm not coming from that plugin, I don't use 3DS Max either but I haven't found a way to recreate that functionality in C4D.

[Dr. Sassi]

Hi smckenzie,

Please have a look here.
The shape, e.g., a roof, must not be the same object as the one used in the Cloner. An object used for its information only must not be visible.
The options to limit this are also done with Fields.
https://stcineversityprod02.blob.core.windows.net/$web/Cineversity_Forum_Support/2023_PROJECTS_DRS/CV4_2023_drs_23_MGpt_01.c4d.zip

Cheers

[smckenzie]

You know, I tried something like this a little while ago

How would we do this for a honeycomb pattern, i.e. offset rows?

roof-tile.1.c4d

[smckenzie]

Here's my effort at offset tiles lol.

roof-tile.1.offset.c4d

[Dr. Sassi]

Hi smckenzie,

Thanks for the file. Please have a look here:
https://stcineversityprod02.blob.core.windows.net/$web/Cineversity_Forum_Support/2023_PROJECTS_DRS/CV4_2023_drs_23_MGrt_31.c4d.zip

This is pretty much a summary of some comments from above.

Please note that I have set the work plane to that part of the roof to the orientation of three points (selected) of that roof. Things are more accessible that way. (Reset it by Workplane to Y)
https://help.maxon.net/c4d/2023/en-us/Default.htm#html/51902.html#PLUGIN_CMD_1027593

I have used the Edge Spline to harvest the left and right boundary and the outline of that roof side.
In that way, the "half" end pieces were quickly defined.

The two planes under the Connector Object (also mentioned earlier) are slightly shifted to each other; in that way, they create the shift while layered.

The Clones are Multi Instances, which will save a lot of rendertime.

Roof material has a different shape, and the "cubes" are easy to adjust to practical sizes. Just in case someone reading along find them not realistic. they are just simple proxies/examples.

Enjoy

[smckenzie]

Thanks for this, glad to see it can be done natively. I'd asked around for nearly a year and your the first person to show a solution

That being said, this would be a slow workflow with multiple roofs.

These guys made this plugin some time ago - how is this working?

https://www.c4dzone.com/en/shop/plug-ins-17/tuile-generator-2-0-10-108.htm

[Dr. Sassi]

Thank you, smckenzie,

If you want something for a roof that is automated, the plugin looks great, but they have not shown a single round shape; how about a bat dormer or a little round Cone-shaped roof? As before, I'm not here to evaluate plugins, especially those I don't have. You need to get it, test it in your environment, and explore if it delivers what you need.

I had the plugin bug in the '90s and spent $10K on plugins. Most of them fed my ego but never made any money. The key is to explore if the solution is not establishing new problems (… does it works with external render farms). Like getting used to it, and it is no longer developed.
It is always one tile, and the borders are not based on specific end "stones".
Please always check if the plugin supports the latest release. That would be my first indicator.

Typically the details are done with Displacement if time is not provided to do the detailed work. Then it works like a decal. Very fast, and if the Materials are of good quality, you might have trouble seeing the difference. Of course, detail shots might unveil it.

If there were a perfect solution for all shapes of roofs, walls etc., like a one-click option, who would hire a visualization artist anymore? We might get there, the more people push for simple options.

Roof Tiles can also be distributed with textures (Shader Effector, Shader Field). Take your time and dive into MoGraph or Texture-based solutions.

If you work on a feature film and details are shown, the character runs over a roof with a close-up of the shoes, then textures will not work as much as a model.

All the best

[smckenzie]

Its for some of these reasons why I didn't get the plugin however up until no no one has been able to give me any other solution, especially a native one.

[Dr. Sassi]

Thanks for the feedback, smckenzie,

I would encourage you to look into the Asset Browser of Cinema 4D. There are tons of materials. The image below is based on that.

Or even explore Adobe's Substance offerings, which allows you to create unique surfacing options.
https://www.adobe.com/products/substance3d-painter.html

Elly's Quick Tip is a must-see, of course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08CqyBVkpeU

Cheers

[Dr. Sassi]

Hi smckenzie, you started another thread with the same question, only with a more complex Spline, and about something that started the whole thread here.

A complete shape-defining Spline will not be available. For example, splines will not create the needed "endcaps," even if they could shape the clones. (Splines can be used as "Knife".
Another problem you get into with a Boole, the only option I can see here, is that (as mentioned) the Multi Instances will not work, as one can't shape single instances and expect them to be Multi-Instance based as before. Either or, never both.

Shader-based or texture Alpha-based, same problem, the "cut" areas have no cover.

Besides Boole, Volume Modeling is an option, but for roofs or walls, that is a little bit excessive and will lead to rendering times that are not wanted, I presume.

If the clones are based on Polygons or Generators, (Sweep) doesn't matter. Spline can't limit it.

Have you written "Share Your Ideas" to Maxon by now?

All the best

[smckenzie]

Although it was more complex and unlikely it would be possible, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.

I've experimented with most options including maps, Boole, displacement etc. I even tried RailClone on 3DSMax!

RailClone is clever and offers a lot of flexibility, however I don't want to be in 3DSMax land.

Fortunately for me, I found a copy of the NLinn shader, it's based on the original and the company I found had reached out to the originator of the shader and was given the original code. Anyway, I just tried it by making some planks in a cloner and generating a normal from it and it looks great. From there I'll generate a displacement map and just go that route.

I do really appreciate all the effort you put into my requests, I can't express how nice it is to have someone to ask questions and get a prompt response!

[Dr. Sassi]

You're very welcome, smckenzie.

Please keep asking questions, as I believe that a problem comes back until it is solved. So, I try not to avoid anything here, and please never take my "moderation" (AKA keeping things organized) personally. New theme, new thread. Same question, old thread. Yes, yours was slightly different the second time; hard to find the right balance.

So far, I have answered Cinema 4D questions over 35,000 times in a Forum. The times I had to say there is no option (AFAIK) are very low. You can check even the past twelve years at Cineversity.com.

I'm sure that I do not know all, as I might find tomorrow a solution for something I was not aware of today. However, each question leads me to explore, and I'm under the impression that there is no failure, only gained experience. I assume I have some experience.
So, I am happy to get your and other questions; they lead me to things I wouldn't have explored otherwise. I also try to understand the overall tendency and put this in discussions during our meetings into the mix. I try to be a voice for our members here, but please use the "Share Your Idea option; otherwise, I sound like someone who generalizes things without factual background. Thank you.
With that being said, I tried today several other options. But even if you use the path of the Sweep and cut that, the resulting shape with have straight edges in x, y, or z, per clone, staircase-like, not tilted as the spline asks for...

Here is a little example with a cube shape. I have left the problem in it. Move some points, and it is gone. A typical problem but easy to fix, even with nearly invisible changes.
https://stcineversityprod02.blob.core.windows.net/$web/Cineversity_Forum_Support/2023_PROJECTS_DRS/20230304_CV4_2023_drs_23_MObo_01.c4d.zip

Cheers